The introduction of local anesthetics and other medications into the epidural space is a principal technique in provision of anesthesia in many procedures. Typically the anesthetist accesses the epidural space blindly using palpation and visualization of external landmarks and then uses a needle to get to the epidural space. The investigators propose a prospective study of use of ultrasound in a large heterogeneous group of surgical candidates to define the relationship between the actual needle depth (ND) to the epidural space and measured ultrasound depth (UD). Establishing correctly the depth to the epidural space via ultrasound is a component of ultrasound imaging that might improve current technique, and might lead to faster performance of the epidural. Use of ultrasound may also improve the efficacy and safety of epidural placement.

The null hypothesis of this study is that ultrasound depth is similar to the needle depth in adult non parturient patients undergoing lumbar and thoracic epidurals. A parturient in this case is defined as a female currently near or going through labor.

Inclusion Criteria:

• The patient population will include all non parturients above the age of 18 who are candidates for epidural placement prior to surgery.

Exclusion Criteria:

• Parturients, prisoners and patients younger than 18 years old will be excluded from this study.

The patient population will include all non parturients above the age of 18 who are candidates for epidural placement prior to surgery